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Interesting idea for a cheap shelter

Long Term/Short Term Survival Shelters. Constructions tips and ideas.

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Interesting idea for a cheap shelter

Postby Whisper » Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:38 pm

I read about these before. I thought the pics would help those who are tight on funds looking for a cheap way to build a shelter. I thought of using corrugated pipe for escape tunnels. It's not a bad option, depending on why you would want a underground shelter. BTW - I have nothing to do with the web site.

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Re: Interesting idea for a cheap shelter

Postby littledoc » Mon Mar 08, 2010 10:51 pm

Thanks for the link!
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Re: Interesting idea for a cheap shelter

Postby Alaska Rose » Tue Mar 09, 2010 4:25 am

Evidently these culverts work very well, the fellow that owned the mining property just above mine was arrested last summer for having a multi-million dollar growing system for pot set up for year around growing on his mining claims. He had insulated it so well that it didn't show above ground in the winter, even.
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Re: Interesting idea for a cheap shelter

Postby Who is John Gall » Tue Mar 09, 2010 4:40 am

I like the idea of a shelter like this. Simple and comparatively cheap. like Whisper says. As for the use of corrugated pipe for escape shafts, have you read Chernobyl Syndrome by Dean Ing? A bit of a rambling book, very piecemeal, but with some interesting nuggets thrown in here and there. For example, in the discussion of shelters Ing describes a Soviet design using 24" to 36" pipes filled with loose rumble. The pipes provide air intake and escape shafts, while the loose rumble will damper the blast wave from a near-by explosion. I think that this is a good idea, but instead of loose rumble use building material, like bricks or cider block thrown into the shaft in a haphazard way so that air can flow through them. It would slow your egress if you have to leave quick, true, but would also slow the ingress of anyone else and you can always use some spare building material.
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Re: Interesting idea for a cheap shelter

Postby Alaska Rose » Wed Mar 17, 2010 2:45 am

Excellent idea
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Re: Interesting idea for a cheap shelter

Postby Hansel1 » Thu Mar 18, 2010 2:15 pm

A good design uses a different pipe for the air intake and the exit. The air intake should be filled with loose dry sand to be used as a first coarse filter all air goes through the sand, then going through a second air filter before going into the air pump. Ideally the fresh air pump will run on electric and have a manual handle that can be used to activate the pump if the electricity fails.This will make sure that chemical and larger nuclear particles from fallout never makes it into the regular air filter near the pump. The exit shaft should have several blast damping features one of them is that the original shaft goes vertical past the entrance from the shelter and is filled below the entrance with several blast closures ...plates of concrete that fit into the opening 1-2 inches thick and 1-2 ft apart...30 of them in the installation I am describing, that take the kinetic energy that makes it past the top lock. A form fitting piece of steel that is removable and is inserted at the junction from the horizontal to the vertical part will prevent back drafts.The horizontal pipe is then again connected to the vertical exit from the shelter. This prevents large blast waves to reach the shelter directly. Of course, the regular survival shelter does not need such a elaborate installation. What I described..hopefully clearly enough was the installation used in European military installation to survive a attack of the eastern block. The shelter commonly is about 40ft below the surface and can seat/sleep 200 people. 100 sleeping and 100 sitting in shifts. They usually where accessible by going down 4 flights of stairs below the regular cellar of a military installation building.

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Re: Interesting idea for a cheap shelter

Postby Whisper » Thu Mar 18, 2010 7:42 pm

Hansel1 wrote:A good design uses a different pipe for the air intake and the exit. The air intake should be filled with loose dry sand to be used as a first coarse filter all air goes through the sand, then going through a second air filter before going into the air pump. Ideally the fresh air pump will run on electric and have a manual handle that can be used to activate the pump if the electricity fails.This will make sure that chemical and larger nuclear particles from fallout never makes it into the regular air filter near the pump. The exit shaft should have several blast damping features one of them is that the original shaft goes vertical past the entrance from the shelter and is filled below the entrance with several blast closures ...plates of concrete that fit into the opening 1-2 inches thick and 1-2 ft apart...30 of them in the installation I am describing, that take the kinetic energy that makes it past the top lock. A form fitting piece of steel that is removable and is inserted at the junction from the horizontal to the vertical part will prevent back drafts.The horizontal pipe is then again connected to the vertical exit from the shelter. This prevents large blast waves to reach the shelter directly. Of course, the regular survival shelter does not need such a elaborate installation. What I described..hopefully clearly enough was the installation used in European military installation to survive a attack of the eastern block. The shelter commonly is about 40ft below the surface and can seat/sleep 200 people. 100 sleeping and 100 sitting in shifts. They usually where accessible by going down 4 flights of stairs below the regular cellar of a military installation building.

John



You had me at kinetic energy! :ilove:

Great post, I hope you post alot more in the shelter section. How much sand do you suggest in inches before it keeps the air from coming in?
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Re: Interesting idea for a cheap shelter

Postby TheLight » Mon Apr 05, 2010 1:32 pm

What are the pros and cons of corrugated metal culvert VS precast concrete box culverts like these?
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For a long time I've wanted to use precast culverts like that as the foundation to my garage. Instant hidden shelter. And apparently it's a lot cheaper than designing and pouring your own.

Hansel1, any thoughts on how to build your own blast proof/resistant door?
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Re: Interesting idea for a cheap shelter

Postby Whisper » Mon Apr 05, 2010 5:25 pm

TheLight wrote:What are the pros and cons of corrugated metal culvert VS precast concrete box culverts like these?
Image

For a long time I've wanted to use precast culverts like that as the foundation to my garage. Instant hidden shelter. And apparently it's a lot cheaper than designing and pouring your own.

Hansel1, any thoughts on how to build your own blast proof/resistant door?


I've seen things like these and these are pretty sweet!

IMO:

Pro's = Strength and much easier to move around inside with a flat floor. I'm sure I'm missing something.

Con's = Like all concrete, they need to be waterproofed (Not a deciding factor), Weight, these need a crew and a crane to put in place. I'd bet there more expensive then the metal ones. The crew and crane has got to be more expensive.

I guess the biggest difference is strength vs. money.

If you have the money, I'd go for the concrete, but I guess it also depends on what type of disaster that you expect to go down.l
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Re: Interesting idea for a cheap shelter

Postby TheLight » Mon Apr 05, 2010 8:29 pm

Do you think it would cost all that much more than the crew and crane for the larger steel culverts? I have no idea when it comes to real heavy lifting like that.
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Re: Interesting idea for a cheap shelter

Postby Whisper » Mon Apr 05, 2010 9:38 pm

TheLight wrote:Do you think it would cost all that much more than the crew and crane for the larger steel culverts? I have no idea when it comes to real heavy lifting like that.


That's a good point. I guess I looked at it this way. The steal culverts can be moved easier because they are rounded and I would think they would roll from where they are dropped off. I'm not suggesting to do it alone. But with the concrete ones, you would have no choice but to hire a crew and crane.


I've never been next to a large steel culvert. It's just my opinion. we are all here to learn.
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Re: Interesting idea for a cheap shelter

Postby kilogulf59 » Tue May 04, 2010 8:09 am

http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/yago74.html That's an interesting perspective from Back Woods Home...

BTW, I like the corrugated pipe shelter but I wonder at the costs of the pipe? Plus you need to rent a backhoe and that can run into a few bucks.

Oh and there's some great info here http://www.ki4u.com/free_book/s73p904.htm
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Re: Interesting idea for a cheap shelter

Postby Whisper » Tue May 04, 2010 5:53 pm

kilogulf59 wrote:http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/yago74.html That's an interesting perspective from Back Woods Home...

BTW, I like the corrugated pipe shelter but I wonder at the costs of the pipe? Plus you need to rent a backhoe and that can run into a few bucks.

Oh and there's some great info here http://www.ki4u.com/free_book/s73p904.htm



I've tried to price the corrugated pipes. It's hard to find a price. As far as the backhoe, to rent it is a lot cheaper then a shovel! And according to Alaska Rose, they're not that hard to operate. And in this economy, you can probably hire someone to do it for just a little more. Although the secret will be out.
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Re: Interesting idea for a cheap shelter

Postby Alaska Rose » Fri May 07, 2010 2:28 am

Most of the really large corrogated culvert I have seen is like a flattened oval, fairly level bottom and rounded top. It doesn't roll. However, it would be fairly easy to live in, if necessary.

A backhoe is not hard to operate. I do it. I'm not saying you won't make some mistakes off and on with it, but set your outriggers before attempting to use the hoe. Also lift the front up or stabilize it with the front bucket dropped down on it's cutting edge.
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Re: Interesting idea for a cheap shelter

Postby TheLight » Fri May 07, 2010 9:21 am

Two more to add to the pile, links originally from Raptor on ZS.
http://www.shelters-of-texas.com/refuge.html
http://www.stormsheltersdirect.com/?gcl ... DQodAyNkeQ

I still prefer the prefab concrete stuff myself. Just need to find a local distributor.
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