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Russia Threatens U.S. Planes after U.S. shoots down SU-22

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Russia Threatens U.S. Planes after U.S. shoots down SU-22

Postby DR1VENbyKNOWLEDGE » Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:52 am

.


So, some folks think they can stop prepping because Trumps in office???


Think again.



This is the first real-world conflict with real-world repercussions he has faced......There's no simple "Fake News" to combat here...This is VERY real.

Syria has had ALL the makings of a world-war producer/powder keg since it started...all sorts of different governments/world-powers involved on different sides.


Is this the "flash point"?



[SNIP]

Russia's defense ministry said planes flying in Syria, west of the Euphrates River, would be considered targets.

The news came one day after the first time in history a U.S. jet shot down a Syrian plane – and the first time in nearly 20 years the U.S. has shot down any warplane in air-to-air combat.

The last time a U.S. jet had shot down another country’s aircraft came over Kosovo in 1999 when a U.S. Air Force F-15 Eagle shot down a Serbian MiG-29.



http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/06/19/us-shoot-down-syrian-jet-prompts-russian-threat.html




Thoughts???......





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Re: Russia Threatens U.S. Planes after U.S. shoots down SU-2

Postby NJMike » Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:26 am

Syrian airspace has been a crowded place the last few years. List of aircraft lost:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_a ... _Civil_War

Perhaps some turnabout will occur in the near future, but I don't see this as an escalation/flash point...any more than it already was.

I'd suggest we've been engaged in WWIII since 9/11 or earlier. It just doesn't look like the previous two wars, so Western societies haven't truly accepted it as that, just yet. We were brought up to have a different idea, that of bilateral conflict resulting in nuclear wastelands, rather than this slow bleed cluster that's leading to destabilized governments and various economic crises.
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Re: Russia Threatens U.S. Planes after U.S. shoots down SU-2

Postby Gunns » Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:57 am

1 Just because Trump is in office I doubt many stopped prepping. Trump is trying to stop the bleeding but he doesn't realize we are hemorrhaging.
2 So U.S. shoots down a plane. Big deal. Remember Turkey shot down a Russian plane? Bigger deal, what happened, nothing really.
3 Frog in a pan with cold water over a flame. That is America right now. WW3 started on 9/11 like NJMike said.
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Re: Russia Threatens U.S. Planes after U.S. shoots down SU-2

Postby rebnavy1862 » Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:19 pm

NJMike, a slow bleed will kill you just as surely as having your head parted from your shoulders.
Well said Mike and Gunns.
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Re: Russia Threatens U.S. Planes after U.S. shoots down SU-2

Postby DR1VENbyKNOWLEDGE » Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:02 pm

Yep. I'd agree with the viewpoint, but I'm specifically talking about a "Flash Point" here....

You could state that WWII(or the US entering into it) was started by Pearl Harbor...But it could be traced back to the initial hostilities of Japan taking the Islands, Invading China(after false flag Op. Mukden), etc...Even before the US embargo on oil they were active...Flash point I'm talking here as the example would be the embargo or the actual bombing of PH...

Now we have the Syrian events and they've led here...

On the point of Preppers dropping the ball, Obviously its not us here(since we're active), but the sales #'s don't lie.(saw them a while back)..Big-time food distributes have seen significant downturn...and its continued....As quiet as Peppers are about Preps, the only real indicator we'd have on this is sales trends. That's why you see so many articles about "Don't stop prepping because Trump was elected" out there...Opinions being voiced and sales dropping. Here's an older article talking the numbers.
http://www.askaprepper.com/like-nuclear-bomb-went-off-prepping-community/



Back on the Russia thing, I understand saber-rattling of course. But with the actions of Putin and the citizens being told actively (3 months ago and earlier) to get ready for nuclear war(Yes, its a distraction to keep them focusing elsewhere from his failing policies and economy) but what better than the next step for real distraction?

And of course our own reply now....
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/06/19/us-shoot-down-syrian-jet-prompts-russian-threat.html

[SNIP]

"We do not seek conflict with any party in Syria other than ISIS, but we will not hesitate to defend ourselves or our partners if threatened," Capt. Jeff Davis told Fox News.

"As a result of recent encounters involving pro-Syrian Regime and Russian forces, we have taken prudent measures to re-position aircraft over Syria so as to continue targeting ISIS forces while ensuring the safety of our aircrew given known threats in the battlespace," Rankine-Galloway said in a statement.
[SNIP]



I understand exactly what you guys are referencing(and agree in general), but this one feels a little different to me analyzing the recent past Vs. human history...It's why I'm even mentioning it to begin with....


No one else see's this?

Not that it's determining any actions by me of course...Just of note and curious.


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Re: Russia Threatens U.S. Planes after U.S. shoots down SU-2

Postby Illini Warrior » Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:57 pm

Syria tried a BS play by bombing close to US positions - got greased for it - Russia knows it - just a repeat of the Tomahawk (Censored word. I'm a potty mouth) slapping the US gave Syria earlier .... nothing will come of it - if Russia or Syria is stupid enough to try a revenge play - the US is ready for them ...

of more consequence is the launching of mid-range missiles from Iran - THAT was a directed threat at the US .....
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Re: Russia Threatens U.S. Planes after U.S. shoots down SU-2

Postby farmer_dude48 » Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:17 am

I don't know that more people are slowing down on prepping now that Trump is president. I think that more people are looking at ways to do it on their own instead of just buying things from a store or on-line.
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Re: Russia Threatens U.S. Planes after U.S. shoots down SU-2

Postby DR1VENbyKNOWLEDGE » Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:22 am

farmer_dude48 wrote:I don't know that more people are slowing down on prepping now that Trump is president. I think that more people are looking at ways to do it on their own instead of just buying things from a store or on-line.



That's quite possible farmer dude...Sort of like the unemployment rate... #'s can be mis-represented from the sheer nature of prepping if all we look at are prepping sales supply #'s...

We don't have "Workforce participation rate" to see if #'s in one area are not telling the whole story though like the unemployment rate does by example....

interesting though....time ultimately will tell.


And more food for thought on Russia..... here's todays diddy.... http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/06/20/breaking-news-armed-russian-jet-comes-within-5-feet-us-recon-jet.html



So this is why I say things FEEL different with this one...

Times have changed, but they remain the same.

Throughout history tensions rise and fall....What changes is the specific set of conditions around said tensions and the responses ensued that provokes an escalation of action/response to the point of war or a de-escalation.

We don't even need to look back that far for a perfect example....The Cuban missile crisis....let me paint a little picture here.

The times were different....Back then you had layers.....Layers of people involved that analyzed, took time, and responded. It was weeks, and weeks, and weeks from the time that we knew Russia was putting missiles in Cuba for the industrial military complex and president Kennedy to form a response....time and layers stopped things from "Popping". Even with the layers involved we BARELY avoided it.

Since that time interactions are common. We approach them, they approach us..... "Intercepts and Escorts" are common everyday things....BUT, they are done professionally....They approach, safely fly alongside one another for a while and then disengage...... professional.


Flash forward to today.....

The Military Industrial Complex is increasingly alarmed in the way these intercepts are done and are noting, publically, that they're concerned.

Intercepts more and more often by the Russians are EXTREEMLY unsafe. There is more and more intercepts done at extremely high speed as head-on games of chicken veering away at the last possible second. Barrel rolls around a target are common recently as well.... Jittery nerves can quite simply, cause an accident.....So much for professionalism.

Take a big 4 wing NATO/US surveillance aircraft for example...These guys cant really see what's going on directly around their AC...They just have to trust that the Russian pilot knows what he's doing as he's doing barrel rolls around them and not clip their wings....Jittery.

Now we have an AC support pilot that's told he has the ability to fire if he feels threatened....Ya, can you say "powder keg"?

Next, look at the "Layers"....They aren't there.

Trump doesn't even have a full cabinet....the layers are incomplete. Incidents are being reported within minutes to him currently.

Enter the "Twitter-verse"........I don't care if you like Trump or not like I do, his Twitter account needs to be shut the hell off. It's not good for us. He's like a crack addict with his tweets. He has no filter. We need a filter in SOME instances......Trump already stated back when he was a candidate that "at some point you just need to shoot, you just need to shoot, and take care of it" when asked about Obamas reactions to the high speed intercepts.

So, we have rising tensions, unprofessional interactions, no layers for times to tweet, and POP! ....An accident happens....A Russian jet clips a wing and we lose anywhere from 2-20 American lives depending on the type of aircraft downed in the incident.

Enter the final difference from 1962.....Political pressure for IMMEDIATE response...

If something happens in the tiniest bit these days, the absolute pandering for an immediate response is demanded on any administration...Media, officials, the public, all demanding, HOUNDING, for an immediate reaction. Whatever it is will be criticized. That's not the point. The point is no layers, and no time allowed for an appropriate response.


There is nothing you or I can do about it in any way other than to discuss, so this is just food for thought.......I'm not freaking out or anything...lol...I'm just analytical by nature. I study facts and how history has repeated itself with differing circumstances going WAY WAY back for fun.

I'm telling you guys though, this one just feels different to me. Too many lines are connecting.

I'll be very happy when you guys prove correct though. :)
Until then, we discuss and observe.




~D~



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Re: Russia Threatens U.S. Planes after U.S. shoots down SU-2

Postby Gunns » Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:56 am

Russia doesn't want a shooting war with the U.S. They would have to go nuclear just to come to a draw. Putin loves himself too much to go nuclear.

A conventional war wouldn't last all that long. Russia has numbers, but most of that can not be fielded. Just because they have a couple new things and parade them around doesn't mean they can do much with the rest.

Now a two front war would be more difficult. If China and Russia were to join together that would be tough, but if they did not go nuclear, they too would lose against America. Biggest reason is our Navy would dominate the Pacific and Indian oceans. Our Air Force and Army would take Europe and our allies would not be able to sit it out.

Nope neither wants a war. What they want is another coward in the White House.
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Re: Russia Threatens U.S. Planes after U.S. shoots down SU-2

Postby Illini Warrior » Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:13 am

just in - armed Russian fighter buzzed a US recon plane by just 5 feet over the Baltic Sea - then proceeded to harass it's flight with aggressive combat moves .... nothing new except it's becoming more apparently aggressive & dangerous ....
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Re: Russia Threatens U.S. Planes after U.S. shoots down SU-2

Postby DR1VENbyKNOWLEDGE » Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:52 am

Illini Warrior wrote:just in - armed Russian fighter buzzed a US recon plane by just 5 feet over the Baltic Sea - then proceeded to harass it's flight with aggressive combat moves .... nothing new except it's becoming more apparently aggressive & dangerous ....



my point exactly...
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Re: Russia Threatens U.S. Planes after U.S. shoots down SU-2

Postby DR1VENbyKNOWLEDGE » Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:57 am

Gunns wrote:Russia doesn't want a shooting war with the U.S. They would have to go nuclear just to come to a draw. Putin loves himself too much to go nuclear.

A conventional war wouldn't last all that long. Russia has numbers, but most of that can not be fielded. Just because they have a couple new things and parade them around doesn't mean they can do much with the rest.

Now a two front war would be more difficult. If China and Russia were to join together that would be tough, but if they did not go nuclear, they too would lose against America. Biggest reason is our Navy would dominate the Pacific and Indian oceans. Our Air Force and Army would take Europe and our allies would not be able to sit it out.

Nope neither wants a war. What they want is another coward in the White House.



I agree guns....nothing is to be gained. It's not like either side would gain any additional resources or land short of nukes and then its useless anyways.

But it's not like "rational thought" :rolleyes: , has stopped the initial outbreaks to begin with in the past ...


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Re: Russia Threatens U.S. Planes after U.S. shoots down SU-2

Postby DR1VENbyKNOWLEDGE » Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:06 am

lol....and then,... http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/06/20/breaking-us-shoots-down-iranian-drone-in-syria.html

Anyways, obviously more to come here....off to work for the day.

If there's ever a "silver lining" in my life with "Dark Skys" on the horizon, is that this is good for interest rates even if only for a blip.... I'm off to go save some people cash...

Good day to you gentlemen..... :thumbup:
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Re: Russia Threatens U.S. Planes after U.S. shoots down SU-2

Postby Dirk Williams » Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:29 pm

Any military aircrew here can attest to this age old tradition. Foreign combatants have historically flown close, as the US combat/Intercept AC have.

From 1979 to 1983, I flew as aircrew in EP3E aircraft. Our counter pats in the AF, were the RC135, like the one jumped yesterday. I can recall two incidents that I personally witnessed. When the ice was breaking up, in the north of Norweign, we were jumped by two foxbats " mig25s" .

The only place an EP can be jumped from is straight down and aft. While coking and joking with the pilots two 25s, came straight up about 100 yards going straight up. Scared the poop out of me. To the p-3 drivers it was just another day.

Anyways the foxbats played with us, and it seemed to be in good natured gamesmanship. I recall one wingtip to wing tip, the foxbats driver was holding up either a Pepsi can, or a coke ca, and laughing.

Media spins these incidents for ratings.

I'd be surprised if that RC135 was flying without a migcap, or fighter escorts fairly close, it's just how it's done anymore.

As for us shooting down the SU22, seems to me that's an act of war!

Why are we even their?

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