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Fairy tales of US energy independence from natgas.

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Re: Fairy tales of US energy independence from natgas.

Postby TaffyJ » Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:36 am

They use propane forklifts at home depot and lowes. Maybe that is transportation in a way, because forklifts are a vital part of assembling goods for transportation. They shuffle stuff around in warehouses and load trucks and unload other trucks and cargo containers. Without the humble forklift, it would be manpower, a few boxes or sacks at a time. A pallet jack can move a loaded pallet manually, but not lift it for loading into a truck or cargo container.
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Re: Fairy tales of US energy independence from natgas.

Postby ajax727 » Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:39 am

There has been equipment running on N G and propane for years , also with using N G or propane the up keep is less . Also a farmer here has ran his truck on propane for more than 30 years , he rigged it up him self and it was easy to do so .
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Re: Fairy tales of US energy independence from natgas.

Postby TaffyJ » Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:58 am

I use propane in my home for the stove, the water heater, and the furnace. It's great! But scalability in the transportation sector is the issue, here. Knowing a person who has a gas (not gasoline) powered vehicle is not the same as looking out your car window at lunch hour rush and seeing that a quarter of the vehicles around you on the road are gas (not gasoline) powered.

Even 25% of vehicles becoming gas powered would not be enough to allow 'energy independence'. We are still somewhere between 49% and 62% dependent on imported crude, conservatively estimated, and the number changes according to how you 'squish' the figures.
http://www.eia.gov/oog/info/twip/twipar ... print.html
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Re: Fairy tales of US energy independence from natgas.

Postby ajax727 » Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:24 pm

The actions on 1 can make a difference , if not for the actions of 1 a lot of things would not have never have happened .People can sit around and tell others what is wrong in the world but they never have enough spit to try and do anything about it .If you wait for some one else to do or the government to do it or a company to do it will never get done .If you take that first step there is a good chance others will get in line to try it .Here is a example of the actions of 1 , in 1975 I saw the need to have a cheaper way to cure our tobacco , I was told by my pop well if you think it will help us see what you can come up with. So I set out to do something about it , and did . By 76 it was in place and running , as the word got a round in 77 and 78 several farmers here and around the state came by to see and ask questions . They built a system close to what I had and made improvements . So you see the actions of 1 can make a difference .I will not get into the things I built to make improvements on farming equipment , sawmill equipment and things I have done to help other companies improve there bottom line .
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Re: Fairy tales of US energy independence from natgas.

Postby TaffyJ » Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:27 pm

Of course the actions of 1 can improve things. But I, myself, won't be going to a gas powered vehicle because I think this natural gas bubble is just that. A bubble. Like the housing bubble, and the tech bubble. It's a fake wave, in my opinion, which everyone is seeing as the savior of the economy and the excuse to keep on with business as usual. I don't think business as usual is a feasible option anymore, so I'm not going to spend time fiddling with furniture on a sinking ship, or chasing gas bubbles. I'll make my differences in other areas, like helping my friends, family, and neighbors become more adaptable to change. You did good with your tobacco innovations and other equipment innovations. We all make changes with the gifts we are given.
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Re: Fairy tales of US energy independence from natgas.

Postby daaswampman » Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:44 pm

Shreveport Louisiana has natural gas powered buses and they are saving money with them right now. I doubt it is a bubble, but who knows what will happen with price. I sincerely doubt they would be spending money on pipelines, if it was a few year deal. At the same time I do not see anything that is going to replace oil, on the scale we need, to keep this rotting tub afloat. Swamp
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Re: Fairy tales of US energy independence from natgas.

Postby Lance » Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:08 pm

I like Zerohedge but they don't know squat about the oil and gas industry. Rest assured if energy companies didn't have a sure fire ROI there wouldn't be all the activity going after it. There is a TON of gas in the ground and in our area wet and dry gas is practically free with all the capital being spent bring up oil. We have so much gas right now they can't get it all to sales and are having to flare it.
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Re: Fairy tales of US energy independence from natgas.

Postby TaffyJ » Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:07 pm

I don't mean that the gas price is a bubble, just that I don't think we have hundreds of years of it. It will be good for a while, then peter out or pop like everything else. Not worth a full conversion of infrastructure, in my opinion. It will certainly work for some, like mass transit, and should be used for that. But it's not going to 'save' us. Yes, scale is what I'm talking about. We've still got big trouble looming.
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