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What Do You Expect To Achieve in a GDS

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What Do You Expect To Achieve in a GDS

Postby Cadit » Fri May 12, 2017 10:45 am

Hi Fellow ANTS:

What is it that you expect to achieve to accomplish in a Grid Down situation? To survive, Strive, or exist. It is my hope that through my understanding of things and my abilities I will be able to carve out a means to survive in the beginning. With friends and comrades, to do more than survive, but strive also. Each helping and providing for each other in a communal type manner.

Each having their own, but sharing in their excess, and helping others who need help increasing their production for the good of all. Maintain law and order within the group. The settling of matters and issues that will crop up when people live close together. To work toward the survival of the group, therefore insuring the survival of myself and family.
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Re: What Do You Expect To Achieve in a GDS

Postby DR1VENbyKNOWLEDGE » Fri May 12, 2017 1:15 pm

Morning Cadit....

You seem to think a little more in line with me even asking this question....

I've noticed a lot of folks here that ADAMANTLY disagree with this philosophy here about helping others and thriving in a group(Strength in numbers) vs Spidey-Hole tactics for fear(a real possibility that needs to be planned for) of drawing attention to yourself,and family and becoming a target in GDS(or anything for that matter) with your preps....IMHO(To each their own and none are wrong on how they determine to proceed)

I do struggle with this myself but as a "go-to" guy for friends, family, and strangers now in daily life actually caring to help folks in general.
(one of the very reasons I joined ANTS in the first place...I thought long and hard before clicking join as it's a serious commitment to help others when you also might be in distress at the same time in your area)


I just cant see myself shut up and locking EVERYONE out in a survival situation vs identifying and dealing with threats as they pop up while helping where you can with contingencies in place for the inevitable attention this will draw to us....

I can only say I will assess and act according to an actual individual situation when I find myself in it......I do have a plan in action already for community help(no matter how small of a group) but whether it goes into effect will depend in the nature of the situation at that specific time and the volatility in the Neighborhood/City/State.

My GENERAL advice with this in mind can be only one of 3 things .....

#1...Build the network now with neighbors, not after the event.....This is the highest risk level IMO of opening yourself up as a target but if its a real group you'll have the strength in numbers immediately with the biggest ability to have an effect to controlling the outside factors after the event.(way too many things to go into here for building an effective group).....This one for sure makes you "That guy down the street" and in my opinion will not really ever work unless you had at least a 75% "On Board" in your area....Too high of a security risk. Again, IMHO.


#2....Maybe bring a VERY few family/friends and have a plan of action on preps for now including a designated leader or decision committee and FIRM, SET, Pre-Established ROE to act within...Area to consolidate resources after, observing HEAVILY while maintaining discretion the reactions and deterioration or your surroundings(time and depth) and taking a very standoff approach in community involvement while offering assistance where needed while maintaining the core group as the #1 priority and deciding where to get involved and more importantly, where not to.....You can expand outwards or retract inwards based on intelligence gathered for your groups decision as you go...But remember that once you open the door getting involved so to speak there's no going back.....There's always a bug out option/determination that should already be set in place in the ROE plans of said core group.


#3....Spidey-Hole it up!!! ..........Don't get involved, Keep to yourself, (Censored word. I'm a Potty mouth) 'em all, you're on your own Skippy, I told you so/you should have listened to me, etc., etc., etc.....And again, there's nothing wrong with this...Each person has the right to do EXACTLY as they deem for themselves and their family as long as they do no harm to those that do not try to harm you first.


Me? ....I'm #2....
This just seems like the only way to live with myself and who I am if it ever hits in my lifetime while not screaming "hit me first!!!" for everyone to hear now....Whatever happens from there with any decisions I make at the time including to those I'm responsible for has already been taken into account with this decision...


I wish you luck with whatever way you decide is best for you and your family..... You're a "good guy" in my book Cadit for even asking the question.... :thumbsup:



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Re: What Do You Expect To Achieve in a GDS

Postby daaswampman » Fri May 12, 2017 5:19 pm

For me it is a matter of timing! At first it may be simple survival. It could be weeks, months, of even years for a collapse to completely unfold and before you fully know what your dealing with. Some people see SHTF like a light switch and think rebuilding will start immediately. Others (like me) think it will have a domino effect with multiple episodes until we hit bottom.

WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, etc., etc, was a lot more than bombs and battles! Starvation, violence, and disease, gets little historical attention, but has followed all major events for years. You can include The War of Northern Agression and Indian Wars for good arguemnt as they were local with similar results. Or read up on the Okies during the Great Depression! If you get your butt kicked, does it really matter what did it? Swamp

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Re: What Do You Expect To Achieve in a GDS

Postby Photon Guy » Fri May 12, 2017 7:39 pm

Cadit wrote:Hi Fellow ANTS:

What is it that you expect to achieve to accomplish in a Grid Down situation? To survive, Strive, or exist. It is my hope that through my understanding of things and my abilities I will be able to carve out a means to survive in the beginning. With friends and comrades, to do more than survive, but strive also. Each helping and providing for each other in a communal type manner.

Each having their own, but sharing in their excess, and helping others who need help increasing their production for the good of all. Maintain law and order within the group. The settling of matters and issues that will crop up when people live close together. To work toward the survival of the group, therefore insuring the survival of myself and family.


My experience with a GDS was Hurricane Sandy when it hit my area back in 2012. I was lucky in an area that was hit less hard than some of the other areas but nevertheless I was without electricity for at least a week. I had made some mistakes back then such as not having enough gas in my car but at least I had food and I burned lots of wood in the fireplace and used flashlights and in some cases candles for light. What few gas stations were open had really long lines and all too often people who weren't far enough ahead in line had to go home without gas. Much like how in some countries that are hit hard people have to wait for hours in lines just to get a scoop of rice and all too often they would run out of rice before everybody got their scoop. That's how it was with the gas lines during Sandy. Its just one of those things that reminds you that life isn't fair. As it was I wasn't in any group during Sandy but I was able to ride it out and eventually things returned to normal. I spent some of the time reading survival magazines.
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Re: What Do You Expect To Achieve in a GDS

Postby daaswampman » Fri May 12, 2017 9:29 pm

The above is a good example of those with very different mindsets! A week without power happens every year in these parts. It is just life, living at the end of the road! Nor would I consider the power being out for a few days or weeks a Grid Down Situation.

If you know everything will come back on, chill out, grab a favorite beverage, and enjoy some home time! That is exactly what I did following our last big storms! Sure I missed work, but not much! Swamp
People rarely notice what it right in front of their eyes. The Da Vinci Code
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Re: What Do You Expect To Achieve in a GDS

Postby Photon Guy » Fri May 12, 2017 9:46 pm

daaswampman wrote:The above is a good example of those with very different mindsets! A week without power happens every year in these parts. It is just life, living at the end of the road! Nor would I consider the power being out for a few days or weeks a Grid Down Situation.

If you know everything will come back on, chill out, grab a favorite beverage, and enjoy some home time! That is exactly what I did following our last big storms! Sure I missed work, but not much! Swamp


The main problem with not having electricity during Sandy was dealing with the cold. Most modern heating systems use electricity and in late October/November which was when Sandy hit it gets cold here. Fireplaces can help but only so much. Also there were lots of downed trees and without electricity and a very limited supply of gas that means power tools are severely limited and so we had to use hand tools much of the time. It wasn't that bad, I liked the exercise of swinging a maul to split wood but people who are so reliant on power tools would be hindered. Area hospitals were hit hard since they rely much on electricity. I do remember you saying that you're down south, from what I know in much of the south it doesn't get all that cold. But aside from that, there was more to Sandy than just no electricity. When you have no electricity plus all the other disasters that Sandy caused that's when you've got trouble.
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Re: What Do You Expect To Achieve in a GDS

Postby daaswampman » Fri May 12, 2017 11:37 pm

Photon Guy wrote:
daaswampman wrote:The above is a good example of those with very different mindsets! A week without power happens every year in these parts. It is just life, living at the end of the road! Nor would I consider the power being out for a few days or weeks a Grid Down Situation.

If you know everything will come back on, chill out, grab a favorite beverage, and enjoy some home time! That is exactly what I did following our last big storms! Sure I missed work, but not much! Swamp


The main problem with not having electricity during Sandy was dealing with the cold. Most modern heating systems use electricity and in late October/November which was when Sandy hit it gets cold here. Fireplaces can help but only so much. Also there were lots of downed trees and without electricity and a very limited supply of gas that means power tools are severely limited and so we had to use hand tools much of the time. It wasn't that bad, I liked the exercise of swinging a maul to split wood but people who are so reliant on power tools would be hindered. Area hospitals were hit hard since they rely much on electricity. I do remember you saying that you're down south, from what I know in much of the south it doesn't get all that cold. But aside from that, there was more to Sandy than just no electricity. When you have no electricity plus all the other disasters that Sandy caused that's when you've got trouble.


It may not get all that cold, but it can get very hot. I doubt Sandy packed any more than Katrina or the other storms we have seen. It boils down to your mindset and experience. Population density is another issue and the primary reason I left Houston, Texas. I can leave the windows open and run a few 12 volt fans if it gets too warm. Swamp
People rarely notice what it right in front of their eyes. The Da Vinci Code
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Re: What Do You Expect To Achieve in a GDS

Postby Blondie » Sat May 13, 2017 7:27 am

After a storm, you know the cause and could estimate a response time. More or less.

When the grid went out in 2003, I was working at my desk in a high rise building in a major city. Hot day, power went out. Computers went down, cell phones jammed. My desk phone worked.

A few minutes went by and I looked out to see all the traffic lights were out. Traffic started to jam. The girl who answered our office calls said "Blondie, someone just called from your neck of the woods, their power is out, too". I lived 2 counties away with a different power company.

So within 30 minutes I knew this was a major wtf. It was a situation when you don't know the cause nor the scope - you can't estimate a response.
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Re: What Do You Expect To Achieve in a GDS

Postby IceFire » Sat May 13, 2017 7:09 pm

If we had a major "grid down" situation, my response would be this:

1. Since work would be canceled (No electricity/grid, no computers. Since that's what my job is, not much point in us being there) I would instead spend the time working HERE on the property...stable/hay barn to finish; goat shed/milk shed to build; TWO chicken coops to build, and at least one additional run; greenhouses to work on; aquaponics system to set up; garden to plant; more garden beds to set up; canning to do (have a propane "cooker" that will handle two canners at once) sewing to do (good thing I have a treadle machine!) mesquite to remove (quality time with the tractor--Have diesel on hand); and lots of time for all those chores around here that I never seem to have time for.

Don't have to worry about sewer backing up, since we have septic. Lots of "alternative" cooking, lighting, etc. options. Heat not much of an issue, due to our location, plus LOTS of available firewood. Well can be on generator. We're looking at getting a solar set-up for the well, and wind is ALWAYS an option here! (and LOTS of old windmills/pumps around here that are NOT being used...could also get one of those.
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Re: What Do You Expect To Achieve in a GDS

Postby Cast Iron » Sun May 14, 2017 6:54 am

@Cadit, great question.

@Driven, great response.
I find myself in your #1 and #2 categories.
I look at friends and neighbors for their skillsets, assets and liabilities. While I have accumulated a vast skillset and knowledge base, I can not do everything on my own. Nor do I have all the knowledge. I look for others whose skillset or knowledge base compliment my own, or fill gaps I may lack.

The #3, Spider-people: while amusing in their zeal and insistence of how things will all go down, they are good examples of differing mindsets. They provide good insight into that type of mindset.
Beware the Spider-people.

I think one of the bigger problems is question of when is the power coming back on. Many will assume it is a temporary event and wait for the lights to come back on. How long do you wait to do something like expand the garden? Use whatever remaining gas you have in the chainsaw to cut more firewood?

A few winters ago, the blower to the furnace broke. It would be two days before the repair guy could get the replacement part and out to me to fix it. Of course this is when it was in the single digits for highs. The house got down to 40 degrees. I kept the furnace going to prevent the pipes from freezing. Meanwhile, I wore a cotton tee-shirt, heavy weight performance top and bottom base layers, fleece zip up, jeans, expedition weight wool socks and a knit wool hat. At night, a few extra blankets, the dogs and close the bedroom door.
With the right clothing, survival in the cold is very doable.
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Re: What Do You Expect To Achieve in a GDS

Postby Photon Guy » Sun May 14, 2017 10:09 am

Cast Iron wrote:I think one of the bigger problems is question of when is the power coming back on. Many will assume it is a temporary event and wait for the lights to come back on. How long do you wait to do something like expand the garden? Use whatever remaining gas you have in the chainsaw to cut more firewood?

If I need firewood when the grid is down, even if it might be temporary, I will not use gas powered tools to get it. I will use an axe to cut firewood as I would not want to use any gas that I don't have to. I learned my lesson during Sandy about always having gas on hand and not using it when you don't need it.
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Re: What Do You Expect To Achieve in a GDS

Postby rickdun » Sun May 14, 2017 12:12 pm

Photon Guy wrote:
Cast Iron wrote:I think one of the bigger problems is question of when is the power coming back on. Many will assume it is a temporary event and wait for the lights to come back on. How long do you wait to do something like expand the garden? Use whatever remaining gas you have in the chainsaw to cut more firewood?

If I need firewood when the grid is down, even if it might be temporary, I will not use gas powered tools to get it. I will use an axe to cut firewood as I would not want to use any gas that I don't have to. I learned my lesson during Sandy about always having gas on hand and not using it when you don't need it.


If you're waiting for the lights to go out and then cut firewood, you're a day late and dollar short, you should already have a years worth just in case. My wife says I'm a beaver by nature. We use between 6 to 10 pickup loads a year (depending on the winter), I have 30 loads stacked for that grid down situation.

Like CastIron stated, the bigger problem is, when is the power coming back on.

Hey CI, glad you came back to the good old USofA. Any runs from China water? :shakeyes: :shakeno:
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Re: What Do You Expect To Achieve in a GDS

Postby Photon Guy » Sun May 14, 2017 12:19 pm

rickdun wrote:If you're waiting for the lights to go out and then cut firewood, you're a day late and dollar short, you should already have a years worth just in case. My wife says I'm a beaver by nature. We use between 6 to 10 pickup loads a year (depending on the winter), I have 30 loads stacked for that grid down situation.

Like CastIron stated, the bigger problem is, when is the power coming back on.

Hey CI, glad you came back to the good old USofA. Any runs from China water? :shakeyes: :shakeno:


I do keep firewood stocked but if the lights do go out I will cut more just in case I need more. I don't ordinarily keep a years worth, nothing like what you keep, but when Sandy struck and the lights were out for at least a week I did spend much time chopping firewood. We already had wood but with Sandy there were lots of downed trees which meant more opportunity to chop more wood, something had to be done with the downed trees, and it helped pass the time.
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Re: What Do You Expect To Achieve in a GDS

Postby Cast Iron » Sun May 14, 2017 1:02 pm

Photon Guy wrote:
Cast Iron wrote:I think one of the bigger problems is question of when is the power coming back on. Many will assume it is a temporary event and wait for the lights to come back on. How long do you wait to do something like expand the garden? Use whatever remaining gas you have in the chainsaw to cut more firewood?

If I need firewood when the grid is down, even if it might be temporary, I will not use gas powered tools to get it. I will use an axe to cut firewood as I would not want to use any gas that I don't have to. I learned my lesson during Sandy about always having gas on hand and not using it when you don't need it.


I heat with wood.
I would consider the use of gas powered tools to acquire additional firewood for heating and cooking as a need when I have to cut and split 20 cords of wood.
I would also use the ATV to transport said wood to my home from the back forty.
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Re: What Do You Expect To Achieve in a GDS

Postby Cast Iron » Sun May 14, 2017 1:16 pm

rickdun wrote:
Photon Guy wrote:
Cast Iron wrote:I think one of the bigger problems is question of when is the power coming back on. Many will assume it is a temporary event and wait for the lights to come back on. How long do you wait to do something like expand the garden? Use whatever remaining gas you have in the chainsaw to cut more firewood?

If I need firewood when the grid is down, even if it might be temporary, I will not use gas powered tools to get it. I will use an axe to cut firewood as I would not want to use any gas that I don't have to. I learned my lesson during Sandy about always having gas on hand and not using it when you don't need it.


If you're waiting for the lights to go out and then cut firewood, you're a day late and dollar short, you should already have a years worth just in case. My wife says I'm a beaver by nature. We use between 6 to 10 pickup loads a year (depending on the winter), I have 30 loads stacked for that grid down situation.

Like CastIron stated, the bigger problem is, when is the power coming back on.

Hey CI, glad you came back to the good old USofA. Any runs from China water? :shakeyes: :shakeno:


You are correct about having a years worth on hand.
We take the fallen trees, cut split and stack it to season.
Then fell the additional trees, haul it, cut and split it to season.
Sure, rotating it is a chore, but it is what it is.
Fact of the matter is I could not cut and split using hand tools or I would require help and the use of a two man saw to get that much wood for heat and cooking. Lets face it, if we are using wood to cook with, I could nearly double the amount of wood needed for to cook with every day, even in the summer.
Time management is also an issue. There is a lot to be done with livestock, gardens, crops without the additional time taxing of the need to cut and split wood using hand tools.
At some point in a GDS everyone will be using hand tools. But then that is also when neighbors come together to help each other with those chores. Many hands make light and fast work.
My Amish neighbors do it, but they also have all those young men to do the labor, draft horses, ropes, block and tackle and flat bed wagons to haul the wood out of the forest.
If the GDS is a cyber attack or EMP, there is no dead fall from a storm.

Thank you for your warm welcome!
I was very careful as to what water I drank, so no gastrointestinal issues at all, even when I ate street food.
Red wine helped!
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