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FARADAY CAGES

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Re: FARADAY CAGES

Postby Gunns » Wed May 10, 2017 10:26 am

Seems to be a lot of experts on here. Do some searches here and find the links to the official reports. I can never find them when I look.

One of the findings in the reports was that EMP and CME can be significantly reduced if even one side of the container is metal. The scientist, yes it was a scientist that did some testing found that up to a 10,000 time reduction in any radiation be it from EMP or CME could be seen if your car or truck was under a metal car port.

Not sure if that is true since we haven't been hit by an EMP or significant CME. So I triple protect. Device wrapped into plastic, into mylar, into plastic, into mylar and then into the metal trash can. Wish I could do that with my truck, but its not practical lol.
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Re: FARADAY CAGES

Postby TRex2 » Mon May 15, 2017 7:41 am

TRex2 wrote:
cherokeenut wrote:Just curious, I have an old style auto parts cabinet in my garage that is all steel including the doors and legs. Any ideas as to if this would be a safe place for radios and other electronics? Oh, and yes I'm back on a very limited way.

Well, safety is kind of a relative thing, and in the cabinet would be safer than on the bench in the open, but....

While there was nothing wrong with what I already wrote on this, it occurred to me that I don't know how your cabinet is constructed, so there are a couple of other simple things you can do. An EMP does damage (keeping it simple) by inducing currents in everything in its path, and shielding protects things by routing that current around things.

Look at all of the seams. While it is nice to have a continuously conductive covering, the real objective, on an elementary level, is to provide short paths for the induced currents to circumvent your stuff.

So, if the backs and sides have been made folded sheet metal that is simply riveted at the corners, adding rivets or (self tapping works best) screws every 4 inches (or less, would be better) would improve the shielding. Even better would be spot welding every couple of inches. The easier it is for the current to move around your stuff, the less current will go through your stuff.

Always remember to protect against corrosion. Neither paint, nor oil, nor rust are good conductors, so the rule is: drill or grind . Then, attach or mate, then paint over it. In the case of moving stuff, mate it, then spray it with some kind of preservative, each time you open or close it.

Gunns wrote:Seems to be a lot of experts on here. Do some searches here and find the links to the official reports. I can never find them when I look.

I went to school on the stuff and worked in the field for 30+ years. Will be retiring in a few weeks. I don't write more, partly because it does not good to step on other's toes. Your idea to gather the links is good. This would be a great place to accumulate them, the problem being sorting the wheat from the chaff. I have watched more than a few videos that were a waste of time, or worse.

... The scientist, yes it was a scientist that did some testing found that up to a 10,000 time reduction in any radiation be it from EMP or CME could be seen if your car or truck was under a metal car port.

I don't know about that 10,000 times stuff, but a metal car port, or better, garage, will do more than some people on here think it will. Will it do enough? Who knows. See my earlier comments (May 10, 2017 8:51 am) on safety being relative.

Not sure if that is true since we haven't been hit by an EMP or significant CME. So I triple protect. Device wrapped into plastic, into mylar, into plastic, into mylar and then into the metal trash can. Wish I could do that with my truck, but its not practical lol.
Would love to see that :rofl:
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Re: FARADAY CAGES

Postby theoutback » Mon May 15, 2017 8:25 am

Trex, thanks for the posts. I've been racking my mind about this. I do have some smaller devices in a trash can sealed with metalized tape, but I'm interested in protecting larger things, in particular, I am researching solar generators. I've got a barn with a metal roof that is not hooked up to power, I just use a gas gennie when needed. I'm considering a solar one to use there and as a backup for the house, but am hesitant because I am nervous about making that $ commitment only to see it get fried by an emp or cme unless I could protect it.

Also you mentioned protecting solar panels. I just watched a video on a solar gennie, and they had a copper lined bag to protect the the gennie, but said you did not have to protect the solar panels. Now I'm really confused! :?


Any thought? Thanks!

P.S. Any thoughts by you or anyone on solar gennies big enough to power average household power needs in a grid down situation would be greatly appreciated.
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Re: FARADAY CAGES

Postby TRex2 » Mon May 15, 2017 11:41 am

they had a copper lined bag to protect the the gennie, but said you did not have to protect the solar panels

I don't think that is right. You might not need any protection in a CME (I am not sure about that) but I think an EMP will fry anything with any long conductors (wires) in it, or attached to it . Also, you cannot protect whatever you are using when it hits.
Calling Islam a religion isn't much different than calling Nazism or Communism a religion.
Both were also political movements with a religious component, just like Islam.
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Re: FARADAY CAGES

Postby theoutback » Mon May 15, 2017 11:58 am

TRex2 wrote:
they had a copper lined bag to protect the the gennie, but said you did not have to protect the solar panels

I don't think that is right. You might not need any protection in a CME (I am not sure about that) but I think an EMP will fry anything with any long conductors (wires) in it, or attached to it . Also, you cannot protect whatever you are using when it hits.


Sorry, I should have said, "they had a copper lined bag to protect the the gennie", ...when not in use .....
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Re: FARADAY CAGES

Postby ajax727 » Mon May 15, 2017 1:03 pm

TRex great info .
my faraday cage is a building , heavy tin sides with 6 to 8 inches below ground level ( rat and mouse proof ), tin roof , roof and sides are grounded together with clamps and copper wire . Doors are metal i also drove down two ground rods and they are grounded to the building . The weak link is an underground wire feeding power in , but i put in a disconnect box inside .
All the stuff is stored in metal cabinets and grounded in a loop to a ground rod . Also the stuff sits on rubber mats . I have all my late brothers cb equipment stored this way and a ground plain stored and enough power wattage wise to talk skip all 12 v . If we are hit i hope this will protect all the stuff and glass for tools .
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Re: FARADAY CAGES

Postby TRex2 » Mon May 15, 2017 6:58 pm

Well, ajax727, it sounds like you have it pretty well covered.
At least as far as I can see from here.

There is a point, beyond which, personal examination
would be the only way to see if the system is really sound.

Of course, with your background, you already know that.
Calling Islam a religion isn't much different than calling Nazism or Communism a religion.
Both were also political movements with a religious component, just like Islam.
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Re: FARADAY CAGES

Postby Renerylee2 » Sun Jun 18, 2017 7:26 pm

I've recently revisited the Faraday option because of the NK threats. What I have found that works for me is to 1) cover my electronics with something non-metal (even fabric will work) 2) package the item in a mylar bag. I have taped mylar bags together for larger items. 3) Cover the item again with something non-metal 4) Cover the item again with a mylar bag making sure the outside bag does not touch the inside mylar bag. 5) test the inside by placing your cell phone inside and seeing if you can hear it ring. I needed to have 2 layers of mylar to stop the phone ringing. I still place the items in a metal box if it's small enough for overkill insurance. If you have a mylar bag sealer and don't plan to use the item for a long time, that would even protect against moisture. I went with mylar because aluminum foil is just too fragile. You can buy mylar bags large enough to fit 55 gallon drums if you still want to use the drum method but be careful not to have the mylar touch the metal drum. This seems to be for me the cheapest yet most effective method for me.
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Re: FARADAY CAGES

Postby TRex2 » Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:39 am

I don't use the mylar bags, and so I have never actually tested or analysed them, but I have seen a few in videos. What you describe will give you a measure of protection. Will it be enough? Who knows. As I have mentioned before, it all depends on how far you are from "ground zero."

Here is a video that supports what you said about getting a phone to ring. You said it takes two layers. This guy used only one, and the phone still range. But what neither you, nor the man in the video said is: how good is the signal in your area. If you live on a fringe coverage area, this result will be different, since you are actually testing to see if the phone can hear "the tower" not testing to see if can hear your other cell phone.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8a7MyXp1Ws
Calling Islam a religion isn't much different than calling Nazism or Communism a religion.
Both were also political movements with a religious component, just like Islam.
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Re: FARADAY CAGES

Postby new prepper » Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:24 pm

I'm using a trash can. In Dr. arthur Bradley's You Tube video on them, He makes a strong case for using foil tape to seal them. The problem is that you can't get back into them without cutting the tape. I just tested, via the cell phone test, covering the trash can with a sheet of heavy aluminum foil,then outting the lid on and it seems to work.I hated physic in college, so anyone who really knows about this, please comment if you think this is adequate.
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Re: FARADAY CAGES

Postby Illini Warrior » Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:50 pm

new prepper wrote:I'm using a trash can. In Dr. arthur Bradley's You Tube video on them, He makes a strong case for using foil tape to seal them. The problem is that you can't get back into them without cutting the tape. I just tested, via the cell phone test, covering the trash can with a sheet of heavy aluminum foil,then outting the lid on and it seems to work.I hated physic in college, so anyone who really knows about this, please comment if you think this is adequate.



you have the flaw pinpointed in that design - that gap between the lid & body needs to be addressed - the copper tape needs to re-applied each and everytime you'd utilize a piece of electronic gear during a SHTF - during that lapse period your entire stash is vulnerable .... you can expect either EMP or solar emissions for months after the initial blast - subsequent blasts actually being more intense ...

tight wove steel wool is serviceable as a plug/filler - something like 0000Fine - spread a thick layer over the can lip - the inside portion tucked behind the inner non-conductive liner - the outside portion is crushed into position by the overlapping lid .... totally re-usable with no perceivable limited end to it's usefulness ....

don't forget the handle rivets - the holes are big enough to allow EMP wave emission entry - solder them closed or tape over them ....

I prefer the "ash can" type cans over the regular garbage cans - the handles not only locks the lid down but also puts tension on the compression between lid & body ....
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Re: FARADAY CAGES

Postby TRex2 » Thu Jul 20, 2017 3:18 am

Illini Warrior wrote:
new prepper wrote:I'm using a trash can. In Dr. arthur Bradley's You Tube video on them, He makes a strong case for using foil tape to seal them. ...
you have the flaw pinpointed in that design - that gap between the lid & body needs to be addressed - the copper tape ...

Actually no, that isn't quite right. It isn't the "gap" between the lid and the can, it is the shape of the lip (listen closely to the video - if it is the one I think it is, where he uses a signal generator and a spectrum analyser). That lip creates, shall we say "turbulance" as the wave passes over it. And one of the videos also shows that aluminum furnace tape works just as well (it actually worked better in his test) as copper tape, for a much lower price.

The upper edge of the frequency spectrum of a nuclear induced high altitude EMP is just over 200MHz, so the rivit holes are not a problem either.

UPDATE: The video is no longer available, but here is an article discussing that same test, and the writer ponits out that, in addition to the shape of the lip a long narrow slit gap between the lid and the can would contribute to "leakage."
http://www.thesurvivalistblog.net/testi ... rbage-can/
Calling Islam a religion isn't much different than calling Nazism or Communism a religion.
Both were also political movements with a religious component, just like Islam.
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Re: FARADAY CAGES

Postby Illini Warrior » Thu Jul 20, 2017 6:45 am

TRex2 wrote:
Illini Warrior wrote:
new prepper wrote:I'm using a trash can. In Dr. arthur Bradley's You Tube video on them, He makes a strong case for using foil tape to seal them. ...
you have the flaw pinpointed in that design - that gap between the lid & body needs to be addressed - the copper tape ...

Actually no, that isn't quite right. It isn't the "gap" between the lid and the can, it is the shape of the lip (listen closely to the video - if it is the one I think it is, where he uses a signal generator and a spectrum analyser). That lip creates, shall we say "turbulance" as the wave passes over it. And one of the videos also shows that aluminum furnace tape works just as well (it actually worked better in his test) as copper tape, for a much lower price.

The upper edge of the frequency spectrum of a nuclear induced high altitude EMP is just over 200MHz, so the rivit holes are not a problem either.

UPDATE: The video is no longer available, but here is an article discussing that same test, and the writer ponits out that, in addition to the shape of the lip a long narrow slit gap between the lid and the can would contribute to "leakage."
http://www.thesurvivalistblog.net/testi ... rbage-can/



how about some good old practical knowledge thru hands on usage - using a garbage can isn't anything - goes back about as far as I can remember - I set mine up brand new in the early 80s -....

there's a gap - use whatever stupid semantics you want - there's no precision used in rolling that edge because there's no reason - thus the fit between the lid & body isn't perfect - just to satisfy YOU - it's the f___ing "shape" ...

OK smart guy - why aren't you watching and listening to that UTube closely? - testing clearly indicates the handle area has leakage - ?????

back to using tape? - where's your answer? - the use of tape or wrapping in tin foil or some other one usage protection is flawed ....
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Re: FARADAY CAGES

Postby TRex2 » Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:23 am

Illini Warrior wrote:how about some good old practical knowledge thru hands on usage ...
Yeah, some good old hands on. Anyone looking at my previous posts would know how much hands on I have in electronics. And browsing through a few hundred of your posts tells me a lot about you.

OK smart guy - why aren't you watching and listening to that UTube closely? - testing clearly indicates the handle area has leakage - ?????
Which YouTube (or UTube for you) are you talking about? The one I found some time ago is no longer available, as I pointed out, so where are those tests that indicate the handle area has leakage?

back to using tape? - where's your answer? - the use of tape or wrapping in tin foil or some other one usage protection is flawed ....
My answer is that use of aluminum furnace tape is just fine, and that the idea is to get a smooth transition from the metal lid to the metal body, without any sharp breaks.

Guys like you, who cannot accept any criticism, is one of the reasons I don't post here more often.
Calling Islam a religion isn't much different than calling Nazism or Communism a religion.
Both were also political movements with a religious component, just like Islam.
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Re: FARADAY CAGES

Postby dmwalsh568 » Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:03 am

I think this is the video folks were looking for:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYWhTMmv6bs

It's the one where he puts a signal analyzer inside a galvanized trash can both as is and then sealed with aluminum tape.
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