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EMPs (Electro Magnetic Pulse)

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Re: EMPs (Electro Magnetic Pulse)

Postby Murby » Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:48 pm

ReadyMom wrote:
Murby wrote:
A metal trash can is fine but you should tape shut the gap where the lid connects to the can with a conductive tape.. It might feel tight but it probably isn't. A high frequency, high amplitude pulse from a HEMP or NEMP can penetrate a weak seam where the lid connects to the can.. My preliminary list to put in it:



I have the silver aluminum tape for the lid/can seal. Will that work? -k


I don't know.. I would suggest the manufacturers website to see if both sides are conductive. You could probably wrap it with tinfoil and then tape that too.. Just get a good seal.. no gaps, no openings.. not even small gaps.
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Re: EMPs (Electro Magnetic Pulse)

Postby Matte » Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:42 am

pH meter, good idea.

Solar charge controllers, smoke/CO detectors, pulse oximeter, motion sensors, and someday spare NV scopes are some others in mine. Smart phone and Geiger counter will go in the cage once my company upgrades my current iPhone leaving me a spare one.

Solar panels (mono/polycrystalline types anyway) should be OK to leave unprotected if not installed in a system according to the testing in the attachment.
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Re: EMPs (Electro Magnetic Pulse)

Postby ReadyMom » Thu Mar 02, 2017 10:27 am

Murby wrote:
ReadyMom wrote:
Murby wrote:
A metal trash can is fine but you should tape shut the gap where the lid connects to the can with a conductive tape.. It might feel tight but it probably isn't. A high frequency, high amplitude pulse from a HEMP or NEMP can penetrate a weak seam where the lid connects to the can.. My preliminary list to put in it:



I have the silver aluminum tape for the lid/can seal. Will that work? -k


I don't know.. I would suggest the manufacturers website to see if both sides are conductive. You could probably wrap it with tinfoil and then tape that too.. Just get a good seal.. no gaps, no openings.. not even small gaps.


This is what I have (had to look, see): electrical duck tape Image
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Re: EMPs (Electro Magnetic Pulse)

Postby ReadyMom » Fri May 05, 2017 10:47 am

Energy Panel Weighs Efforts to Defend Against EMPs
https://www.rtoinsider.com/electromagne ... emp-42544/

May 4, 2017

By Wayne Barber

WASHINGTON — Senate witnesses agreed Thursday that the threat posed by electromagnetic pulse attacks is a major concern but differed on the adequacy of public and private efforts to protect the electric grid.

The Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee heard testimony from six witnesses on EMPs, policy options for protecting energy infrastructure and improving capabilities for restoring the system after an attack.

Chair Lisa Murkowski (R-Alaska) said there is heightened concern over the threat of EMPs — blasts of electromagnetic energy from a nuclear weapon that can disrupt or destroy microprocessors and other electronic devices — because of the potential spread of nuclear weapons to nations such as North Korea and the ubiquity of electronics.

“This has magnified the impact, as compared to the potential impact in the 1960s, that an EMP burst could now have on the electric grid, the technologies that rely on electronics and our daily lives,” she said.

The broad discussion also veered into risks associated with cyberattacks as well as naturally occurring geomagnetic disturbances (GMDs).

Bleak Picture

The bleakest pictures were painted by former House Speaker Newt Gingrich and Ambassador Henry F. Cooper, a Ph.D. engineer and former director of the Defense Department’s Strategic Defense Initiative.

Cooper said that most federal and state efforts to safeguard the electric system against low-probability, high-risk attacks have been “grossly inadequate.” He said the U.S. government has not devoted enough attention to EMP attacks that are “known to be included in the doctrine and planning of Russia, China, North Korea and Iran.”

Because no defense is perfect, Cooper said more effort should be made to “harden” critical infrastructure against “the full complement of threats.”

Gingrich said that while North America has done an excellent job of developing an efficient electric grid, this efficiency makes it inherently “fragile.”

A widespread grid failure that lasts a long time could be more damaging than the terror attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, Gingrich said. The former congressman, who wrote about the threat in a 2011 book, “To Save America,” alluded to the possibility of hospitals having patients die for lack of clean water and other services.

“Here we are gambling with our civilization,” Gingrich said. He also cited NASA research that he said suggests Earth could be overdue for a major solar storm that could disrupt much of the grid.

Government is on the Case

While the domestic electric grid is a “complex ecosystem” where disruptions can cascade, much work has been done to safeguard the power system, said Caitlin Durkovich of strategic consulting and advisory firm Toffler Associates.

“There is no doubt we live in a dangerous world,” said Durkovich, the Department of Homeland Security’s assistant secretary for infrastructure protection under President Barack Obama. “The bottom line is the risk to digital and physical infrastructure has grown and our critical infrastructure is more vulnerable than it was a few decades ago,” Durkovich said.

“I want to be clear: We have not ignored the threat of an EMP,” Durkovich told the committee.

Sen. Jim Risch (R-Idaho) also defended the government’s efforts to protect the grid. “These issues have not been ignored by the United States,” Risch said.

But many of the defense efforts are not something that can be discussed in public sessions, Risch said. At the same time, “there is not enough money in the world to protect us 100%,” he added.

FERC, EPRI Recap Ongoing efforts

Acting FERC Chair Cheryl LaFleur offered a rundown of FERC’s and NERC’s efforts to protect against grid disruptions.

The subject of EMP and GMD events have been the topic of “significant scientific research and debate, as well as broad discussion among regulators, elected officials, industry and other stakeholders,” LaFleur said.

In 2014, FERC directed NERC to develop a reliability standard that addresses physical security threats. (See FERC Nixes Gov’t Veto Power from NERC Physical Security Standard.) Last September, FERC approved a NERC reliability standard requiring grid operators to assess and protect against the threat of geomagnetic disturbances. (See FERC Approves GMD Reliability Standard.)

“As noted above, the GMD and physical security standards help provide protection against particular aspects of the EMP threat,” LaFleur said. “However, FERC has not directed NERC to develop a standard specifically targeting EMP. To be clear, I believe this is the result of reasoned consideration of the issue.”

Robin Manning, the Electric Power Research Institute’s vice president for transmission and distribution, briefed the Senate panel on his organization’s research on GMDs, EMPs and “high-altitude EMP” (HEMP) events.

“EPRI has been researching GMD for many years, with significant applications now implemented across the electric industry,” Manning said. “Implications and solutions for EMP and HEMP are less understood. Much of the available information is not specifically applied to electric utilities, making it very difficult for utilities and regulators to understand effective options for protecting energy infrastructure,” Manning said.

Lincoln Electric System CEO Kevin Wailes, co-chair of the Electricity Subsector Coordinating Council, testified on behalf of the American Public Power Association.

Wailes said he is skeptical of suggestions in some quarters that the power sector “fully ‘gold plate” the entire grid so it could “theoretically, at least partially survive a high altitude nuclear event.” There is no consensus on what measures should be taken or how effective or costly they might prove, Wailes said.
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Re: EMPs (Electro Magnetic Pulse)

Postby straightshooter » Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:01 pm

It gets much worse folks.
One thing I have rarely seen addressed is the effect of an EMP on our nuclear powered electrical power systems. As I understand their redundancies the reactors have diesel generators to power the pumps for the coolant of the reactors and the spent fuel rods. At the rate large diesel engines burn fuel I would be surprised if they could store more than a couple months worth of fuel on-site, at which point the pumps stop, the coolant boils off, and we have a much bigger problem than lack of electricity in our homes. We would essentially have dozens of nuclear reactors melting down simultaneously, resulting in worldwide contamination many orders of magnitude greater than Fukushima or Chernobyl. Does anyone have real intel on this? I'm seeing EMP as a bad event that will devolve into a global killer after a few months.
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Re: EMPs (Electro Magnetic Pulse)

Postby TRex2 » Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:20 am

ReadyMom wrote:
This is what I have (had to look, see): electrical duck tape Image

I see that Murby didn't get back to you on this topic.
You may remember my discussions about this on other threads.
Yes, that tape, which should be labeled as furnace tape, looks like the correct stuff.

Murby's posts about the subject seem overly simplified, and his protection recommendations seem overkill, but my assessment is that they are pretty good for what we do. Are you using the tape on a steel trash can, or on a barrel?
Calling Islam a religion isn't much different than calling Nazism or Communism a religion.
Both were also political movements with a religious component, just like Islam.
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Re: EMPs (Electro Magnetic Pulse)

Postby Cast Iron » Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:55 am

straightshooter wrote:It gets much worse folks.
One thing I have rarely seen addressed is the effect of an EMP on our nuclear powered electrical power systems. As I understand their redundancies the reactors have diesel generators to power the pumps for the coolant of the reactors and the spent fuel rods. At the rate large diesel engines burn fuel I would be surprised if they could store more than a couple months worth of fuel on-site, at which point the pumps stop, the coolant boils off, and we have a much bigger problem than lack of electricity in our homes. We would essentially have dozens of nuclear reactors melting down simultaneously, resulting in worldwide contamination many orders of magnitude greater than Fukushima or Chernobyl. Does anyone have real intel on this? I'm seeing EMP as a bad event that will devolve into a global killer after a few months.


I have a good friend who lives close to a nuclear power plant.
We can see the cooling tower from her backyard.

Many of her neighbors work at the plant.
As she understands it, something happens at the plant, they scramble to put the plant into maintenance mode and let it cool down to prevent a total melt down.
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Re: EMPs (Electro Magnetic Pulse)

Postby Cast Iron » Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:58 am

A "Super-Powerful" EMP Attack: North Korea's Newest Weapon Against The U.S.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-09-0 ... against-us
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Re: EMPs (Electro Magnetic Pulse)

Postby TRex2 » Sun Sep 03, 2017 12:50 pm

Cast Iron wrote:
straightshooter wrote:... We would essentially have dozens of nuclear reactors melting down simultaneously, resulting in worldwide contamination many orders of magnitude greater than Fukushima or Chernobyl. Does anyone have real intel on this? I'm seeing EMP as a bad event that will devolve into a global killer after a few months.

I have a good friend who lives close to a nuclear power plant.
We can see the cooling tower from her backyard.

Many of her neighbors work at the plant.
As she understands it, something happens at the plant, they scramble to put the plant into maintenance mode and let it cool down to prevent a total melt down.

It isn't the reactors that is the real concern. It is the spend fuel storage.
http://www.ucsusa.org/nuclear-power/nuc ... aw_NrJ96C0
What are the risks and vulnerabilities?
If a malfunction, a natural disaster, or a terrorist attack causes the water to leak from the pool or the cooling system to stop working, the rods will begin to heat the remaining water in the pool, eventually causing it to boil and evaporate. If the water that leaks or boils away cannot be replenished quickly enough, the water level will drop, exposing the fuel rods.

Once the fuel is uncovered, it could become hot enough to cause the metal cladding encasing the uranium fuel to rupture and catch fire, which in turn could further heat up the fuel until it suffers damage. Such an event could release large amounts of radioactive substances, such as cesium-137, into the environment. This would start in more recently discharged spent fuel, which is hotter than fuel that has been in the pool for a longer time. A typical spent fuel pool in the United States holds several hundred tons of fuel, so if a fire were to propagate from the hotter to the colder fuel a radioactive release could be very large.

On the one hand, it won't be as bad as having a lot of Chernobyls, on the other hand, it would be bad. Very bad. I would not want to live withing 30 miles of a reactor, when that happens.
Calling Islam a religion isn't much different than calling Nazism or Communism a religion.
Both were also political movements with a religious component, just like Islam.
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Re: EMPs (Electro Magnetic Pulse)

Postby ReadyMom » Sun Sep 03, 2017 1:36 pm

TRex2 wrote:
ReadyMom wrote:
Are you using the tape on a steel trash can, or on a barrel?
Yes. A metal trash can for a faraday box.
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Re: EMPs (Electro Magnetic Pulse)

Postby TRex2 » Sun Sep 03, 2017 2:04 pm

TRex2 wrote:
ReadyMom wrote:
Are you using the tape on a steel trash can, or on a barrel?
Yes. A metal trash can for a faraday box.

That should work fine. The idea is to smooth the transition from the can to the lid. The E1 wave travels on the skin of the can, so thickness isn't much of a problem (two layers of heavy aluminum foil or two layers of tape, seem to be enough). But the wave doesn't like corners, or wrinkles in the surface, so when the wave hits that lip, it has to jump from lid to body or body to lid and the "turbulence" created by that jump can induce voltages inside the can.

You can never get the cans surface completely smooth, so an extra precaution of wrapping, in aluminum foil, anything that is extra sensitive (like two way radios or notebook computers) or extra critical (medical devices) is a good precaution. Overkill maybe, but still a good precaution.

And what Murby said about lining the can with cardboard is a must. Nothing must touche the inside of the metal can. In fact, I would go a half inch thickness on that (IIRC, he said a quarter inch). Same with any inner wrapping. If you are going to wrap something in AL foil, it is best to wrap it in bubble wrap (the pink foam for electronics is best) or cardboard, first.

And just in case someone brings up a super EMP again,
we covered it here:
viewtopic.php?f=635&t=55597&p=525010#p525010
Calling Islam a religion isn't much different than calling Nazism or Communism a religion.
Both were also political movements with a religious component, just like Islam.
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Re: EMPs (Electro Magnetic Pulse)

Postby OPFOR Tactician » Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:15 pm

itsadisaster wrote:Thank you RM .. been following this many, many years -- so frustrating more hasn't been done to harden grid. Got dozens of reports, speeches to Congress, etc. Here's an '08 article from GovExec with link to EMP Commission's 210-pg report called "Report of the Commission to Assess the Threat to the United States from Electromagnetic Pulse (EMP) Attack". A long, semi-boring read but passing along as fyi. http://www.govexec.com/story_page.cfm?a ... dcn=e_gvet

report also available at http://www.empcommission.org

I think Dr Graham (who presented '08 findings to Congress) was on EMP commission back in mid-90s but it fizzled out then was reinstated in 2006. (sigh) Lot of papers about EMP on The Heritage Foundation site too. Officials can never say they weren't warned - now if some would just actually DO somethin'. Know utilities are doing some things behind the scenes but not enough esp now with economy so bad.



Question: I have placed 8' copper ground rods on each of the four corners of an all steel 20' CONEX. The double ground wires to each are welded to the CONEX body and rod.
So long as the double doors are clamped shut would this help? Just in case, I have the various essential parts inside a smaller cage inside the structure itself and grounded to the inside of the CONEX.
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Re: EMPs (Electro Magnetic Pulse)

Postby TRex2 » Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:11 pm

Question: I have placed 8' copper ground rods on each of the four corners of an all steel 20' CONEX. The double ground wires to each are welded to the CONEX body and rod.
So long as the double doors are clamped shut would this help? Just in case, I have the various essential parts inside a smaller cage inside the structure itself and grounded to the inside of the CONEX.
The CONEX will help, but whether it will be enough can only be known if we know where the EMP will originate from, and what kind of soil is under the CONEX (IIRC, the floor of a CONEX is wood, if it is metal, that is better).
As for the smaller cage, most "experts" will tell you that it is better if it is NOT grounded to the outside structure. In general, I concur, but I can't offer proof at this point. I will say to AT LEAST insure it is only grounded at one point, as grounding it in two places creates a kind of weak spot between those two places. (Multiple layers of shielding, when not touching one another, tend to multiply effectiveness. In contact with one another they tend to add, rather than multiply.)
Calling Islam a religion isn't much different than calling Nazism or Communism a religion.
Both were also political movements with a religious component, just like Islam.
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Re: EMPs (Electro Magnetic Pulse)

Postby kenjabroni » Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:12 am

TRex

if you are using the metal cans like you said and you recommend using 1/2 inch of insulation inside could you use the foam insulation as protection inside the cans instead of cardboard? I could get a sheet of that stuff and form it inside the can easier than layers of cardboard.
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Re: EMPs (Electro Magnetic Pulse)

Postby Cast Iron » Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:41 am

A recent House Hearing on EMPs.
Provides some additional data.

http://docs.house.gov/meetings/HM/HM09/ ... 171012.pdf
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