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GOLD-- For REAL???

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Re: GOLD-- For REAL???

Postby daaswampman » Wed Oct 14, 2015 7:45 pm

dmwalsh568 wrote:Cost of getting items into space is outrageous. Getting things back from space is a fraction of the cost, since it requires almost no fuel - just enough to nudge it towards earth, then a parachute to keep it from impacting at too high a speed. Although with raw metals it wouldn't be terrible if it splashed into the ground without slowing since they could mine it a lot easier than a regular mine....


It would still require a complete guidance system and heat shielding. Liability insurance would literally be out of this world, although I would not mind if one dropped on the back forty. I will admit I like the idea of gold falling from the heavens. Swamp
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Re: GOLD-- For REAL???

Postby broden » Wed Oct 14, 2015 8:38 pm

it may not happen in our life time.. but we went from no flying to the moon in about 60 years and technical advancement just keeps speeding up

these things have a way of sneaking up on us and suddenly they are there and the ever day normal all of a sudden

even more so when there is money to be made.. and the more money there is to be made the more companies are willing to do whatever it takes to start making it

if there are trillions on the line .. companies will have no problem spending many many billions to go after it
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Re: GOLD-- For REAL???

Postby daaswampman » Wed Oct 14, 2015 9:11 pm

broden wrote:it may not happen in our life time.. but we went from no flying to the moon in about 60 years and technical advancement just keeps speeding up

these things have a way of sneaking up on us and suddenly they are there and the ever day normal all of a sudden

even more so when there is money to be made.. and the more money there is to be made the more companies are willing to do whatever it takes to start making it

if there are trillions on the line .. companies will have no problem spending many many billions to go after it


I totally agree, but how would that effect me or the price of anytime in the foreseeable future? Much like the liberal propaganda movie Avatar and their quest for unobtainium! Big companies bad, mining bad, greed bad, weapons bad, indigenous people good, nature good, interspecies breeding??? A hundred years from now gold may be worthless and unobtainium something to die for. All our news and entertainment is propaganda! Just how would they know that asteroid contains six trillion in platinum? The last I heard we can't look inside space objects and maybe it is just platinum plated! Swamp
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Re: GOLD-- For REAL???

Postby broden » Wed Oct 14, 2015 9:27 pm

just something to think about..

that's why i wondered in my initial post about it... nothing at all to do with politics but rather just something interesting, to me, to ponder

as far as how would they know what an asteroid contains well there are many different ways of scanning objects planets asteroids and such now.. and those ways are also constantly advancing

as far as when it will really begin happening .. a lot of engineering can be done in 100 years.. but i don't think it will take that long
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Re: GOLD-- For REAL???

Postby cldickerson » Thu Oct 15, 2015 6:10 am

I agree that holding gold or silver for long-term wealth preservation makes sense but most of us don't have significant wealth. For those of us in this category holding on to a little gold hoping that it will make you rich when SHTF is delusional. Use your money for preps and barter items now while it still has some value. In a grid-down situation Walmart ain't gona' be interested in your Krugerand and I won't be selling food that I keep for my family's welfare for all the Krugerands in the world.

Prep first! Buy barter items second! If you have some cash left, pull it out of the bank and keep it at home. (Yes, it will have some value for a little while.) If you still have money left over, consider gold as a means of safeguarding that wealth. Most people would be better off using the money spent investing in gold to invest in preps. You just can't eat gold.
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Re: GOLD-- For REAL???

Postby whitedog420 » Mon Dec 07, 2015 5:43 pm

The problem with having gold or silver after SHTF is that you can't eat or drink it and it can't heal you. Its value hinges directly on what someone will give you for it. If you can't find someone who wants it then you're screwed. Even if you do find someone who wants to trade for it, there's no guarantee that they'll trade you something that you need or want.
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Re: GOLD-- For REAL???

Postby daaswampman » Mon Dec 07, 2015 6:57 pm

There is not a single documented time in all of recorded human history, that gold did not have value and men were not willing to kill each other to get it. Gold and silver is about wealth preservation more than a way to get rich.

There are also numerous times a little gold has bought safe passage when nothing else would. There are current stories of people getting out of ISIL territory and using gold to pay their way, just like the Jews did in WWII. It may also prove to be a good choice if one had to flee and start over somewhere else.

Prepping is about having options and they are a good option if you can afford them. Swamp
People rarely notice what it right in front of their eyes. The Da Vinci Code
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Re: GOLD-- For REAL???

Postby angie_nrs » Mon Dec 07, 2015 9:35 pm

whitedog420 wrote:The problem with having gold or silver after SHTF is that you can't eat or drink it and it can't heal you.


Are you certain of that? There's some good information on this site about the healing properties of silver. ;)

ETA links:

viewtopic.php?f=188&t=51104&hilit=colloidal+silver

viewtopic.php?f=112&t=30795&hilit=canning+silver

viewtopic.php?f=607&t=52278&p=484665&hilit=silver+uses#p484665
with that last link, check out what is said about silver in the sterilization section of the post.

The arguments for and against PM's have been discussed here before. Just type in silver, gold, or PM's in the search box and you will have more reading on the topic than you ever wanted. It's good stuff......
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Re: GOLD-- For REAL???

Postby Cast Iron » Tue Dec 08, 2015 8:31 am

daaswampman wrote:There is not a single documented time in all of recorded human history, that gold did not have value and men were not willing to kill each other to get it. Gold and silver is about wealth preservation more than a way to get rich.

There are also numerous times a little gold has bought safe passage when nothing else would. There are current stories of people getting out of ISIL territory and using gold to pay their way, just like the Jews did in WWII. It may also prove to be a good choice if one had to flee and start over somewhere else.

Prepping is about having options and they are a good option if you can afford them. Swamp


Good point:
recorded human history
.

Recorded history is when there is an stable society and economy established. The peoples other needs, food, shelter, security, have been met, and they now have extra for trade. To conduct commerce. Where everyone agrees on the value of x for y.
The examples you list are accurate, despite the situation, there still is/was a society and an economy even under ISIL or Nazi rule.

Who will be around to trade for gold if a SHTF event happens?
I have read on this site and others if SHTF, the JIT food distribution system fails, 90% of Americans will be dead in 6 months. Of those remaining 10% you could probably subtract another 2 or 3%.
How many more after the 1st year?
Of the remaining people how many are preppers? How many with gold or silver? Is there enough to establish a new economy? A hand full of coins in a small group of people, you are just moving around the same coins in the same group of people.

Then there is supply vs demand. JIT food system gone, 90% of people have died, all the grocery stores have been raided, looted, burned down. Food supply is down, demand for the remaining people will be high (that is until people start growing food again).
How much for a MRE? One gold coin? Five? Ten?
I would l be more likely to trade 50rnds of .22LR for a MRE than a gold coin.

Someone over on the ammo thread stated a handgun without ammo is useless.
So what value does gold have without an economy?

Comes down to belief. Right now we all believe pieces of cotton paper with dead presidents have value. Some believe gold will have value after a SHTF event. Shouldn't the possibility gold may not have value after a SHTF event just as equally as gold will have value?

If I could afford them, I might buy some gold. But I think there are other things my little dead presidents could buy now that will get me further in a SHTF event.
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Re: GOLD-- For REAL???

Postby AuntBee » Tue Dec 08, 2015 8:53 am

Gold and silver wouldn't have a lot of value initially. At first people will be focused on food, water and shelter. As the situation settles down, PMs will come back into play. People who lack sustainability skills and resources will be bartering whatever they have. PMs are portable and relatively easy to conceal.

Gold, silver, and copper should have some value for rebuilding some systems.
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Re: GOLD-- For REAL???

Postby daaswampman » Tue Dec 08, 2015 12:16 pm

Do not assume all things are ever equal. Even during the hardest of times, their will be people with supplies and people looking for an advantage. Right now there is a thriving black market in ISIL territory based on gold. Nazi occupation same thing, Stalin's forced starvation same thing again, war torn areas of Africa same thing again. Life has never been and never Will be equal or fair.

A dear friend happens to be from a very wealthy family. They made their fortune following The War of Northern Aggression, because they had money which was gold and bought up land for one years taxes or less. Do you really think the Government will just go away, even if most people are starving to death? Do you really think a black market will thrive on trading rice and beans. Do yourself a big favor, forget about equal and get your hands on some US silver dimes. Swamp
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Re: GOLD-- For REAL???

Postby Cast Iron » Tue Dec 08, 2015 12:54 pm

AuntBee wrote:Gold and silver wouldn't have a lot of value initially. At first people will be focused on food, water and shelter. As the situation settles down, PMs will come back into play. People who lack sustainability skills and resources will be bartering whatever they have. PMs are portable and relatively easy to conceal.

Gold, silver, and copper should have some value for rebuilding some systems.


I can see that.
For the first few years, everyone who is still alive is going to be more concerned where their next meal is coming from vs wealth. Even if you have food stockpiles for one year (or two), what happens after one year plus one day?

Until things stabilize, a new society emerges, and someone establishes a new economy.

Of course it is not like gold is going to be rare if 90% (or more) of the population has died off. Why trade away a MRE for a gold coin when if I want a piece of shiny metal, I can just walk into an abandoned home, ransack it for all the gold, silver, diamonds etc. I want? Jewelry stores, pawn shops, homes of the rich and famous.

There is an idea for a skill to learn: smelting jewelery down and making coins. Change your name to "Fed." :D
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Re: GOLD-- For REAL???

Postby daaswampman » Tue Dec 08, 2015 5:23 pm

A 90% die off is another unsubstantiated myth made popular by cheap prepper novels! While anything is possible, a 90% reduction in the population, would still leave over thirty million people trying to make a living any way they could.

Nor is a reduction in the population always bad! Consider this!

[snip]

Consequences of the Plague included a series of religious, social and economic upheavals, which had profound effects on the course of European history. The Black Death was one of the most devastating pandemics in human history, peaking in Europe between 1347 and 1350 with 30–95 percent of the entire population killed. It reduced world population from an estimated 450 million to between 350 and 375 million in the 14th century. It took 150 and in some areas more than 250 years for Europe's population to recover.

From the perspective of the survivors, however, the impact was much more benign, for their labor was in higher demand. Hilton has argued that those English peasants who survived found their situation to be much improved. For English peasants the fifteenth century was a golden age of prosperity and new opportunities. Land was plentiful, wages high, and serfdom had all but disappeared. A century later, as population growth resumed, the peasants again faced deprivation and famine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consequen ... lack_Death

Prosperity equals demand for the better things in life and that takes money!
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Re: GOLD-- For REAL???

Postby FussyOldHen » Tue Dec 08, 2015 8:58 pm

Cast Iron, I just don't understand what the point of your question IS.

If you think that food will trump everything else, buy more food.

If you don't have enough money to buy everything your little heart desires right now, buy more food with what you've got

If you don't think gold will be worth anything to you, don't buy gold.

If you're as rich as Croesus, buy both. You don't have to worry about the gold or silver going stale or getting moldy.

And if you're asking for an absolute answer, you're not going to get it.

The Bottom Line: Do the Best You Can with What You've Got.
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Re: GOLD-- For REAL???

Postby Cast Iron » Wed Dec 09, 2015 8:13 am

daaswampman wrote:A 90% die off is another unsubstantiated myth made popular by cheap prepper novels! While anything is possible, a 90% reduction in the population, would still leave over thirty million people trying to make a living any way they could.

Nor is a reduction in the population always bad! Consider this!

[snip]

Consequences of the Plague included a series of religious, social and economic upheavals, which had profound effects on the course of European history. The Black Death was one of the most devastating pandemics in human history, peaking in Europe between 1347 and 1350 with 30–95 percent of the entire population killed. It reduced world population from an estimated 450 million to between 350 and 375 million in the 14th century. It took 150 and in some areas more than 250 years for Europe's population to recover.

From the perspective of the survivors, however, the impact was much more benign, for their labor was in higher demand. Hilton has argued that those English peasants who survived found their situation to be much improved. For English peasants the fifteenth century was a golden age of prosperity and new opportunities. Land was plentiful, wages high, and serfdom had all but disappeared. A century later, as population growth resumed, the peasants again faced deprivation and famine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consequen ... lack_Death

Prosperity equals demand for the better things in life and that takes money!


Actually THIS web site where I first encountered the 90% die off in 6 months. I dont think I have ever read a "prepper" novel . . . does Lucifer's Hammer count?
I thought 90% was a bit high myself.
When considering the shift from rural areas in the early 1900s, small family farms, to urban and suburban areas, the vast majority of Americans have lost those skill sets.
I asked a friend where did she think hamburger comes from? She said the grocery store. And she has a Phd.
The FedEx guy was delivering a package, he was afraid of my chickens would bite him.
Maybe 90% die off is not outside of the realm of possibility.
Oh, i am all about a reduction in population. Less competition for resources.
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