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BOL vs Camping or Base

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Re: BOL vs Camping or Base

Postby daaswampman » Sat Jul 15, 2017 7:25 pm

It would take someone from the city to think of a plan that ignorant and out of touch with life outside the city limits. Do you really believe there are millions of abandoned homesteads waiting to be taken and nobody would notice! Here is a clue - there's not! Any land worth having has value and somebody already wants it. The few rural homes in this area that are abandoned, are also uninhabitable.

Then there is the issue with the County Sheriffs! They are very likely to be the last law standing following SHTF and they don't tend to be all warm and fuzzy to trespassers and outsiders! Then there are the neighbors who most likely know their neighbors and their relatives.

If you get past all that, city ain't the only ones making plans. Do you actually think we would leave these places standing, knowing the problems they would cause? The moment we know - they go! The last thing we need is refugees and that includes the ones we know. Personally I doubt many vacation homes would still be standing considering current feelings. Swamp

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Re: BOL vs Camping or Base

Postby Stahlrosen » Sat Jul 15, 2017 7:45 pm

We live on our BOL. Moved here about 10 yrs ago. We won't be going anywhere.
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Re: BOL vs Camping or Base

Postby NJMike » Sat Jul 15, 2017 8:24 pm

Cadit wrote:I see a lot of truth stated here, but some Bull S**t too. First off, there will be so many die right off the bat. Then you have those that will be killing and looting the cities and towns. After a short time of those type of activities; diseases will start up. So in a very short time, our population will dwindle considerably. People are not given to change that well, so most will stay where they are, resisting that urge to run. We are creatures of habit and most times that will lead to ones death in a SHTF event.


While I don't want to disagree with your described scenario, I do want to suggest that there are many flavors and degrees of SHTF scenarios, and perhaps scenarios that are more likely do not have the die off, WROL, environment that you are contemplating.

I do believe that local order will be established locally, resources permitting, so WROL is perhaps something to consider in more rural areas where there is more real estate to cover. I don't see cities melting down unless in the most desperate of situations. It may of course depend on the city and its strategic significance. What's more likely is strict martial law, rationing, and confiscations. Nomads = Looters in many scenarios where there is any semblance of rule of law, given any established local authority (military, local law, militia, individuals). Armed groups of nomads will be disarmed or shot in dire scenarios. Campers = Squatters = resting Nomads/potential Looters in rule of law scenarios, and thus I'd expect wandering masses herded into formal camps, maybe even those FEMA camps some are paranoid about.

All the above is conjecture. It's all conjecture until it happens.

To bring this more back on topic, I'd suggest in most nation wide scenarios that bug in, or a formal BOL, may be better as a first recourse. You know your ground, you know your neighbors, you know resources, you know your situation. However, one has be able to discern their area of operations being seriously compromised and then move on from there. I then think camping would be a needed short term strategy to utilize in a bug out from an established location. One should consider in camping whether a large group is a benefit or a liability for them. There are pros and cons to both large and small groups.
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Re: BOL vs Camping or Base

Postby daaswampman » Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:25 pm

You got to love them white folks, who's plan is to be homeless!

Homeless is not a plan, homeless is what happen when your plans fail! Swamp
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Re: BOL vs Camping or Base

Postby IceFire » Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:50 pm

Dang! My whole post disappeared! I'll try to re-create it.

Around here, the County Sheriff's Deputies ARE my neighbors! Along with a bunch of State cops, Arizona Rangers, Border Patrol, Forest Service (to include Forest Service Law Enforcement), town cops, current and former/retired military, as well. As for the old folks, well they're almost ALL armed, as well (and know how to use them.) We look after our neighbors in these parts. Anything suspicious happens, EVERYONE knows about it in short order.

Anyone STUPID enough to try to break into an "unoccupied" home will likely NOT last past the first attempt at their "B and E". The only other "unoccupied" property is BLM or other "raw" land. By that, I mean NO water (unless someone has a drill rig and can drill down 400 feet and hopefully hit water), NO shelter, and No food (unless they have the knowledge and skills/equipment to hunt rabbits and forage mesquite "beans", along with the means to cook them) just LOTS of mesquite, various types of cactus, grasses, and noxious weeds (tumbleweeds and silver nightshade being the most prevalent.) Good luck with that.
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Re: BOL vs Camping or Base

Postby PatrioticStabilist » Sat Jul 15, 2017 11:32 pm

Where we are a corporation owns all the surrounding land, its farmed. As they bought
it they tore all the houses on it down, nothing will ever be built on it, there used to be
quite a few people living here. There's thousands of acres. The lady we bought this place
from could have sold to them but their house was only about 8 years old and she said they
would have destroyed it and she just didn't want that to happen.

I think you would have a hard time finding many vacant houses in the country. Maybe
some places. But the farms the farmers buy up they do the same around here, don't want
to be bothered with renters in old houses and don't want to pay the property taxes.

In fact we have had a resurgence here of deer, coyotes, wild turkeys, and we have seen
bobcats in the area. We have heard of panthers and a few bears east of us but not seen
here yet. I think they will be as the older folks die off and no one moves here. North of
in the upper part of the state a couple of people had some horses torn up. Big claw
marks and big chunk out of one, lots of stitches. Hubby said sounds like a panther instead
of a bobcat as they are bigger and more likely to do that. So they have some bigger
critters lurking, if they would attack a horse would they attack a human, scarey.

We are 35 miles away from a bigger city and 100 miles from a main city so feel pretty
comfortable. Farmland here is super productive. Our restraint is going to be our ages.
Hubs is still going strong for a 70 year old, can work like he always did. But osteoarthritis
and bad feet are taking a toll on me. He tried to get me to quit a garden this year but
I don't want to. Next year he is thinking all ground cover first or plant so he can run a
cultivator through it, but time is catching up. I am still doing the same things but at a
slower pace and less per day. I hate like hell getting old.

But we intend to stay where we are. In short order the lawn would grow up and by
summers end I doubt you could even see our house from the road. We are set up to
stay here and if son, wife, and grandson could get here there is room for them too. I
don't know about getting seed for the garden, a lot I get now won't germinate, so that
worries me. I would like to keep some back but wonder if it would be any good. I
am still canning and freezing but not as much and it worries me. I imagine we could
get some chickens to start a flock from neighbors, the deer are plentiful but likely not
for long with all hunting. Lots of fishing here too and duck hunting if hubs or son are
good enough shots. There are neighbors that raise cattle but not as many as used to
and I don't know of anyone that raises hogs. Probably would make a resurgence though
if things got in a bad way. We still have people here that know how. It's a good place
to be and I'm glad we are back and not near the Woodlands and the city of Houston 20
or so miles away. I would consider that a killing zone and place for mass starvation in
short order.
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Re: BOL vs Camping or Base

Postby Blondie » Sat Jul 15, 2017 11:36 pm

I'm not suggesting head for the tourist campground but you can make yourself aware of service roads, two tracks, etc on federal or state land that can get you safely off the beaten path for a time.

I wouldn't squat in someone's unoccupied seasonal deer camp or vacation cottage. One thing I learned is that many owners up here have a 'signal' at their remote location that shows those in the know that the camp is occupied. Friends have one of those decorative seasonal flags they put out when they're at camp. No flag & people there? Tresspassers.

I agree with Cadit, most people will head home & stay put. Something about human nature.
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Re: BOL vs Camping or Base

Postby Permafrost » Sun Jul 16, 2017 1:59 am

Illini Warrior wrote:unless "nomadic" is code for raider scum - I don't see how anyone without a plan for self sufficiency and stocked supplies for backup is going to survive ..... if you have Jeremiah Johnson dreams please will your bear gun to me before you starve to death ....

I'm not seeing how following the caribou herds throughout the year living a nomadic subsistence lifestyle makes a person "raider scum". Likewise someone who travels from the interior to the coast to fish and then travels to hunting grounds in the north would by definition be nomadic. How are these people raiders or scum. Unless you are talking about raiding the earth for resources to live, but I never figured you for a greenie Illini so I am truly confused.

P.S. I'll keep my bear gun, I have not starved to death yet and I don't plan on it in the future. I'm not sure who Jeremiah Johnson is but it seems kind of like a dig at anyone who lives subsistence. People have lived here since the beginning of time hunting and fishing and trapping to feed themselves, moving in small circuits of a few hundred miles and maybe making one big river trip a year for fish. Even if the world all falls apart people will still be able to live here in the artic in this fashion.
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Re: BOL vs Camping or Base

Postby Illini Warrior » Sun Jul 16, 2017 8:57 am

Permafrost wrote:
Illini Warrior wrote:unless "nomadic" is code for raider scum - I don't see how anyone without a plan for self sufficiency and stocked supplies for backup is going to survive ..... if you have Jeremiah Johnson dreams please will your bear gun to me before you starve to death ....

I'm not seeing how following the caribou herds throughout the year living a nomadic subsistence lifestyle makes a person "raider scum". Likewise someone who travels from the interior to the coast to fish and then travels to hunting grounds in the north would by definition be nomadic. How are these people raiders or scum. Unless you are talking about raiding the earth for resources to live, but I never figured you for a greenie Illini so I am truly confused.

P.S. I'll keep my bear gun, I have not starved to death yet and I don't plan on it in the future. I'm not sure who Jeremiah Johnson is but it seems kind of like a dig at anyone who lives subsistence. People have lived here since the beginning of time hunting and fishing and trapping to feed themselves, moving in small circuits of a few hundred miles and maybe making one big river trip a year for fish. Even if the world all falls apart people will still be able to live here in the artic in this fashion.



you honest to God are going to try to denigrate my posting with some tundra bullshit example from the Artic Circle - why not use the (Censored word. I'm a potty mouth) african plains Zulu for your idiotic example while you're at it ...

if you honestly believe some guy from Pittsburgh - can roam around the western PA area during a serious SHTF .... live off his meager carried supplies - supplemented by foraging/hunting while fighting 10,000s of fellow refugees for that resource .... and he won't be looting or raiding - you got quite the imagination - you need to be on the Obammy biography writing team ....
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Re: BOL vs Camping or Base

Postby NJMike » Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:26 am

We do all seem to write from our personal frames of reference. lol.

I think you're both right, depending on if you're standing in the Alaskan wilderness or somewhere in the lower 48. ;)
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Re: BOL vs Camping or Base

Postby Matte » Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:02 am

Just had to login and comment since this thread has two of my favorite prepper fallacies, 1) "People with money are stupid and will be the first to die", and 2) "If the SHTF I'll just steal what I need".

The former often heard from posters having self-professed financial difficulties. I don't want to pour salt on that wound, but if you're having difficulty surviving in times of plenty then a disaster isn't going to improve your odds. It may be fun to fantasize about those lazy, unprepared, undeserving, affluent people ending up at the bottom of the pecking order before they die of starvation because no one will take their gold or Cadillacs in exchange for a loaf of bread, but that's not reality. The single biggest factor on who survives disasters is wealth, poor people die in much greater numbers.

On the latter, the law protects criminals as much (or more) than it protects the law abiding in civilized society. As much as I'd like to beat the living S out of shoplifters and thieves, I can't today without likely getting arrested for assault and then sued by the perp in civil court. The law protects the criminals. It's for this same reason I have sirens on the burglar alarms in my homes and outbuildings, because today I just want to scare off thieves - not risk a confrontation that results in injury and possible legal and financial consequences. Today I'll just call the police and file an insurance claim if needed. In a WROL situation that changes, the sirens will be turned off so it's just a silent alarm. I've given considerable thought to, and made preparations for, how to deal with looters and thieves in a SHTF/WROL environment, including how to ensure my actions appear justified (in case there might be some doubt, as mistakes could happen) once the rule of law is restored. No "shovel and shutup" here most likely, just roll the bodies up in a tarp, spray-paint "armed looter" on them, and dump them in a ditch at a nearby intersection. Should help cut down on the crime rate in our area, and if or when questioned by the authorities on what happened later, they'll just be one story told, mine, and I have it memorized already.

On the question of BOLs, imo it's only those that can't afford one that don't see the need for one. Would you want only one firearm? One vehicle? One first aid kit? Why would having one house be any different? If you're an avid all-weather camper, then OK. Have a cousin like that, he doesn't self-identify as a prepper (self-identifying being the only requirement to be a "prepper" I guess), but spends at least a week each year tent camping in a national forest while deer hunting in northern Michigan in November. People with that kind of experience might pull it off, the risk of failure and death (or just a very miserable existence) seems pretty high otherwise.
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Re: BOL vs Camping or Base

Postby apache235 » Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:33 am

Matt, my comment on bodies would be from a health standpoint that leaving them to rot by the wayside might not be tactically or medically sound. I guess it depends on how many and what critters might enjoy the free food. Second, that app at the end of your comment scares the crap out of me.
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Re: BOL vs Camping or Base

Postby IceFire » Sun Jul 16, 2017 4:43 pm

Illini Warrior wrote:
Permafrost wrote:
Illini Warrior wrote:unless "nomadic" is code for raider scum - I don't see how anyone without a plan for self sufficiency and stocked supplies for backup is going to survive ..... if you have Jeremiah Johnson dreams please will your bear gun to me before you starve to death ....

I'm not seeing how following the caribou herds throughout the year living a nomadic subsistence lifestyle makes a person "raider scum". Likewise someone who travels from the interior to the coast to fish and then travels to hunting grounds in the north would by definition be nomadic. How are these people raiders or scum. Unless you are talking about raiding the earth for resources to live, but I never figured you for a greenie Illini so I am truly confused.

P.S. I'll keep my bear gun, I have not starved to death yet and I don't plan on it in the future. I'm not sure who Jeremiah Johnson is but it seems kind of like a dig at anyone who lives subsistence. People have lived here since the beginning of time hunting and fishing and trapping to feed themselves, moving in small circuits of a few hundred miles and maybe making one big river trip a year for fish. Even if the world all falls apart people will still be able to live here in the artic in this fashion.



you honest to God are going to try to denigrate my posting with some tundra bullshit example from the Artic Circle - why not use the (Censored word. I'm a potty mouth) african plains Zulu for your idiotic example while you're at it ...

if you honestly believe some guy from Pittsburgh - can roam around the western PA area during a serious SHTF .... live off his meager carried supplies - supplemented by foraging/hunting while fighting 10,000s of fellow refugees for that resource .... and he won't be looting or raiding - you got quite the imagination - you need to be on the Obammy biography writing team ....


He was NOT trying to denigrate your posting! He was using the example from where HE lives. Everyone's situation is DIFFERENT, since we are all in different areas of the country (and even OTHER countries and continents!) In Permafrost's area (that's WHY he has that name, BTW...because up where he is, that's what's under his feet!) you DO have people living a semi-nomadic life, following their food sources. Down in the "lower 48", things are different. Your area is MUCH more populated than his area, or even my area. What works in one area, will not work in another. To try to apply a "one size fits all" approach to any given situation is a fallacy, because everyone's circumstances are different. That's why the gov't keeps screwing things up...they try a "one size fits all" approach without taking regional and local differences into account.
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Re: BOL vs Camping or Base

Postby daaswampman » Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:58 pm

Matte:

Thank You for pointing out the obvious! My first BOL was a old travel trailer on a small lot in Arkansas that cost me less than ten grand. I have gone upscale from those days, but the concept is the same - have a plan!

If you can't get ahead in today's world, your not going to! It has never been easier to get ahead than right now! We have options our parents never heard of! Our morals may have gone to hell, but as far as money, these are the good old days!

I grew up poor and choose not to wallow in excuses. I did what those I envied did! I got an education, learned to manage money, worked long hours, and made some plans. Gosh golly gee willikers, it still works! Swamp
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